Radzi: She's quiet, she's humble, but on the track she was an absolute beast - 400 metres Olympic champion, World Champion, British record holder, Christine Ohuruogu.
Radzi: Hello and welcome to Making Gains with me Radzi, in association with the University of Derby and Finnebrogue’s Naked Bacon, the biggest revolution to happen to British breakfasts in a generation. Now when I say British, no one personifies British sport than one of the greatest sports people that you probably do not know enough about, she's an absolute gangster on the track, formerly of England netball, she's a two-time world champion in athletics, specifically in the 400 metres, an Olympic champion 2008 in the 400 metres. The first ever British woman to win two world championship gold medals, and the first ever British female to win three global medals, Christine Ohuruogu. Welcome to Making Gains.
Christine: Thank you, nice to be here, that's quite an introduction.
Radzi: It's genuinely a real pleasure to talk to you and can we start at the simple thing, you are one of those people that are annoyingly talented, so much so you can transition from doing a bit of netball to just becoming a full-time athlete and representing Great Britain in about a year, is that a fair representation?
Christine: Yeah I was doing netball and track, concurrently for a while and then it got to the point where there's just a lot of not enough hours in the day. I realised very young that we have to learn to use our time wisely, and it wasn't wise to be kind of trying to engage in this tug of war between both sports, so I had to make the decision to cut one. Well I think initially I just cut England netball from the international level, I still did a club and a bit of county, and then eventually I had to kind of whittle that down away just to club and it went all together.
Radzi: I’m going to talk to you obviously about the Olympics, obviously about world championships, but one thing I also love to talk about is people's firsts. So your first ever international medal I think from memory European under 23s bronze?
Christine: Um it was a little bit, well it's like a little bit earlier than, okay, yes, you are
No, no, it's European juniors.
Radzi: So this is when the selectors didn't even choose you, they don't even choose the next person, the next, and then you yeah elected I have no chance and then you get a medal.
Christine: I wasn't supposed to have gone, I didn't make the original team list, I think a couple of girls had been injured and I think another one of the girls went got bumped up, upgraded to compete at the senior level champs, and so yeah I was the next person ranked down the list.
So I really wasn't supposed to go, let alone medal um and in the final I actually was an outside favourite. I managed to scrape through the final by the skin of my teeth and I was in lane one I think.
Radzi: Oh you couldn't see anything but you can see everyone and you've got to kind of measure your race, so for the not necessarily athletics aficionados, lane one means you're running on the inside, but you're right and it's harder to really open up.
Christine: Yeah it's tight, it's a lot harder for girls, or athletes with longer legs, because the bends they just cut a lot shorter, so it's quite hard to kind of maintain your speed trying to get around the bend when they're so tight, it's a lot tighter for your legs than the other lanes are.
Radzi: And talking about your style, did you have the same style of almost working your way into a race? Because you think about some guys go off hard and almost maintain, some people vary that, it was as though you didn't put the hammer down until maybe the last 120, which made for drama, but did you do that even back then?
Christine: Yeah I think the great thing about 400 is that you can really use many different techniques and styles to run. Some 400 metre runners are front runners, they like to get out in the front and just hold, whereas others like myself run a more even paced run. So if you break the 400 down in a technical way and, I mean the easiest way to break it down and say like the 200 versus the 200. My task, or my coach, trained me to really try and keep even 200s, so basically the speed you go out is the same speed you have to come back in, rather than going out too hard and then losing maybe an extra two seconds because you're very, very tired. So that’s based on my skill, and my talent, and my strength as a 400 metre runner was that I have very good strength levels. My muscles, my body, can go on for a long time without fatigue and I have very good lactic tolerance, so I could do that. I'm a strength runner as opposed to a speed runner, so that's kind of why he trained me in that way. So I think the beauty about 400 is that you can use different techniques, but you have to work to your strengths and I literally worked to my strength, which was to maintain even splits for 200.
Radzi: And when you say lactic tolerance is that something that, so if I took you and just hypothetically Nicola Sanders, take you two and you both experience - you're running at the same speed, the same distance, do you think you actually produce less lactic acids, do you think you feel it in a different way? Do you think you just mentally just block it out? What actually think happens in your brain that's different?
Christine: I don't exactly know because I don't think it was ever measured, we used to have like lactic tests, like they'd prick our ears with a needle and they would take the um the blood and measure it and stuff, but that was years ago and I think we just - my coach and I just took it as wrote. That's just how I was, but I kind of think it means that even though I am producing lactic, I am human, and it does hurt but for some somewhere I’m just able to tolerate that a lot better. I can still work through the pain, and the funny thing is my sister's actually the same, my sister's actually born that way too, she can run for long periods of time without ‘I’m kind of dying.’
Radzi: So your sister runs in a relatively similar style, which is, so not necessarily a really high knee lift, but you can see the power you actually put into the track, it is it's formidable. Like, are you a strong dead lifter? Do you have a good leg press?
Christine: Yeah definitely, my legs are definitely where I get a lot of my power from, so I’m very good with single leg leg press, I can leg press one, 150 on one leg for maybe 10 reps, and that's a deep press - so I think my secret power, I can say now because I’m not running, my secret power was always found in my in my thighs. My thighs, if you look at my physique, my thighs were a lot bigger in comparison to my calves, I literally have no calves, but um yeah and also it's the leg length as well. So I think for me, my power came straight from my quads, some of the people especially it comes from their glutes, but I think for me a lot of the power was was from my thighs, my quads, you know.
Radzi: Sean Crawford in 200 metres from America, he was exactly the same. Big quads, big glutes, zero calves.
Christine: Works out all right for him.
Radzi: You know, you're kind of saying the different approaches to 400, even if you look at the guys now, so say the female side you have you've been Alison Felix, versus Anneka Anora, versus you, versus Sanders, you know even Perry Shakestraight all these people, such different sizes, different styles but yet they still get the job done.
Christine: Yeah I think that's the beautiful thing about 400, it almost gets overlooked, there's no really one size fits all, or there's not really one training program fits all, and now that my coach has sadly passed I’m kind of taking a job of just going through our training programmes, because we actually were supposed to do that together, that was all that was our project for
this year was to go through all my work, because I’ve never actually sat and gone through forensically all the work we've done. He never wrote anything down so I was going to use my my notes, because I kept thankfully for training. But I was going to use all my notes and, with his memory, and for us to kind of put it together, but we've never actually done that and I think we worked very well, because he was able to tailor my training to specifically suit me as a person. I know 400 seems like a relatively straightforward run, it's just one you know just try and get around as quickly as you can, one lap and nothing to surprise you there, but it's really how you get by the most efficient way. We all know it's going to hurt but you really have to try and minimise the damage you're doing to yourself, mentally and physically, so you can get round in one piece, and that's where the skill in training 400 comes into that. Just a real skill in understanding how to get the best out of your athlete and minimise the trauma, because it is actually quite traumatic, and the run - you're scared before you run, you're hurting during, and afterwards you don't even know what to do with yourself you're just thankful to be breathing, you know. So, but a beautiful thing about 400, there's so many different types, and body types, and ways of running, like if you compare me and Nickel we both ran similar PBs at one point, but we ran them in very different ways. We have very different physiques as well. But yeah, that's, I think that's probably one of the reasons why I absolutely adore 400, because you never quite know what someone's gonna bring to the table. You're never quite sure, people can change their tactics on the day as well, you have a lot of room to change things around on the on the track. You've got one lap, so it's quite interesting to see how the race actually unfolds and I do think that's one of the reasons people think the 400 is very interesting, because you can see things unfolding in front of your eyes as opposed to say like uh because it's one lap it's one lap, it's just one quick lap, and there's so much that can go on. I remember people, a lot of people, saying to me that the 400 relays are always the best thing to watch, they terrify me! Absolutely terrifying, amazing area. Yeah but I get it why people enjoy it because you can just watch everything unfurling in front of your eyes, there's so much to go on. For me, it's terrifying, I’m not a fan, I did it but they will give me a lot more mental aggravation than the individual 400.
Radzi: Do you know what I didn't realise until I used to be a mascot called Spike the lion?
Christine: No way!
Radzi: That was me that was guilty as charged so if you saw a guy running around like a lunatic that was me dressed as a red lion. That was me back in the day.
Christine: You did well though.
Radzi: Say again sorry.
Christine: You did well.
Radzi: Thank you I tried my best I got into the papers once with Dwayne Chambers me and him stand next to each other with our hands aloft but you know what one of the best things about it was I got to see behind the scenes so I got to stand next to Jeremy Warrener when he ran his race.
Christine: Aw wicked.
Radzi: And mid interview me he lifted up the sponsorship kind of toblerone underneath him and just vomited and I thought okay even Jeremy Warrener one of the nicest 400 meter runners you're ever likely to see even he feels dyslectic. He's actually feeling this. Wade Van Niekerk breaks the world record in 400 metres usurping the absolute hero Michael Johnson he gets stretchered off the track I mean you are putting your body on… I mean Christine why why did you choose that my friend?
Christine: The funny thing is I to this day I don’t know and there was one season I can’t remember what season it was but it was a season I did a few diamond leagues. It was the diamond league then but I did quite a few of them back-to-back I can't remember the year but I did quite a few of them back-to-back and I was seeing the same girls on the circuit we were kind of you know running the same races. The same 400 girls and the funniest thing was that there was one race in particular and we finished and I'm not lying it was carnage. I think one girl was in one corner throwing up another one had lost her shoe I think one shoe is like over there and her other shoe is like near the finish line someone was rolling over groaning and you know we were all in real dire straits and the funny thing was is like even in the midst of all this this carnage I was getting up to go I was kind of finished rolling around and I was trying to get myself up and I said to one of the girls who is a good friend of mine I said oh where are you going next week? and she goes oh so and so and I was like oh I’m going to be there, oh I’ll see you next week and they were like see you next. So like despite all the pain you’re feeling at that moment you're still quite happily willing to go ahead and put yourself through that the week after despite all the pain and the throwing up and watching how somebody can barely even stand up.
Radzi: Right.
Christine: It takes you ten minutes to get over it you're still quite happily ready to say oh see you next week I’ll be there don't worry I’ll see you then. But it's complete madness and they say what madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result but I don't know if there's something in it I don't know I suppose with 400 I'm sure for a lot of us its probably the only event we could do. If I could have done something else I definitely would have done something else.
Radzi: What was your 100 hundred time?
Christine: Hundred was what? Eleven three? Eleven three something?
Radzi: And you say solid but not kind of world world class?
Christine: No. I wouldn’t go anywhere with that. Sorry?
Radzi: And 200?
Christine: 200 was twenty two eight?
Radzi: Okay so it really was about you. You found your event.
Christine: Yeah or 400 found me I didn't find 400 I wasn't looking for 400. I really was not looking.
Radzi: Can we talk about 2007 when you become World Champion because.
Christine: Yeah we can I’ll go back in my memory bank for that yeah.
Radzi: Because that was special and in fact you don't even need to go back in your memory bank lets see if we can get this up here. We'll look at the panel here. Here we have Christine, Nicola Sanders and the other one to look for Sharika Williams of Jamaica.
Christine: Oh my gosh I’ve not seen this in a long time.
Radzi: About 130 metres to go. Christine at this point here you are… Let me just pause it there… At that point there Christine you are not in contention in the traditional sense at all you think wow bronze if you’re lucky but.
Christine: Yeah.
Radzi: Do you recall anything about that race?
Christine: You know I remember coming into the home straight so it was my coach and a very good friend of our coaching group Sandy Richard, Sandy Richard’s is Jamaican I don't if you remember her?
Radzi: I do yeah.
Christine: So she was good friends with Lloyd and she was really helpful towards me and my prep for these championships and I remember she said to me, she called me the night before. She said Christine whatever you do just make sure you leave everything on the track leave everything and I remember as I approached here I was thinking and I could hear her words. I'm thinking I’ve still got loads left so that's kind of where the hammer came down and I just accelerated but I just remember her saying just leave everything. Do not come back and you still have something left in your tank so you know that’s possibly…
Radzi: Reeling her in. Look at that there was just no margin whatsoever! I mean look at the timing of this reel her in, you reel her in… Oh my goodness that is close. At that point then are you aware that you’ve won?
Christine: I knew I had done enough to win I think… I don't know it's weird because you're probably thinking how can you tell when you don’t have the advantage point everyone else has done but I think with my training I’ve been so good at timing myself, I've been very good at understanding how to judge people and so I think at that time I knew I'd won. I didn’t think I’d not done enough with the time that I had I think I was quite confident that I'd beaten her.
Radzi: And that is an incredible feeling knowing that you are 90 metres from the finish line she's a meter and a half ahead of you but you’ve got a lot of gas left in the tank because most of the time people are thinking I don't know if I’ll even reach the finish line let alone…
Christine: I don't know if I'm gonna finish… Yeah but Lloyd always said to me like he'd always tell me Chris you’re strong you're strong you're strong and it's weird because sometimes I wouldn't always believe it but I think at that moment in time in the race you have to almost just like back yourself you have nothing else to lose at that point you really have nothing else to lose as much as it's hurting you. You kind of think well if I get there quicker then the quicker I can rest.
Radzi: The quicker it’s over yeah.
Christine: The pain is over but no it's one of those things that Lloyd will alway say that Chris I don’t have to coach you the last hundred I just coach you to 300 and then the last 100 is just you and your sheer will that's all it is it just will and so I think with that kind of coaching you realise that the last 100 is just really the battle of you and your mind I suppose and the thing is we're all feeling the same strain but it's just whether you can withstand it and keep it together for the last bit where it counts.
Radzi: Do you look back at your races? Do you watch them back ever?
Christine: Not really and Lloyd used to scream at me because he’d say how can I coach you when you don't know what you're doing if you don't watch your races? And I’d say okay I'll watch it, I’ll watch it but I never did. He’ll be furious with me but no I don't know it's weird because I have the reel in my head and that’s kind of what I go off the feeling not necessarily what I'm watching but I would watch everybody else though and watch everybody else just not my races.
Radzi: So it was quite intuitive then in which case?
Christine: Yeah I think it's almost like what you see from your mind's eye as opposed to what you see visually so I think I was a very much an intuitive runner and I think it's possibly because my coach was an intuitive coach so I was always taught to almost you know feel the run. You feel what it feels like because once you feel what it feels like you'll know if it feels off when you’re running. You will know if something isn't quite coming together so it was always a question of Chris I need you to feel it you need to feel what it's like to run you know 23 seconds, you need to know with the first 200 is it too quick or too slow and adjust. That's why I was very good at understanding pace judgment and the rhythm. There'll be times where you know people could go off quickly but for me it was out of my zone it wasn't my rhythm so even though they were running very very quick it meant that I wouldn't panic I was quite comfortable running my race because I know that I have to get to 200 in this time you know if I go any quicker I'm gonna capsize I'm gonna destroy everything so it was a very good lesson in discipline and understanding exactly what I need to get done and
making sure that I got it done exactly how I needed to get it done.
Radzi: But the bottle you must have to do that because it's one thing having a strategy but things change and then let’s take bird's nest to Beijing 2008 people because of London 2012 especially in this country we forget how big that Olympics was the opening ceremony I don't think I’ll ever see a better ceremony. For me that was my favourite Autumn opening ceremony. Seeing two thousand and eight drummers on that light, it comes on when they hit it with one hand and the light goes off again and the the structure of the birds aesthetic. I’ve been fortunate enough to be there myself you go inside it's a cauldron of sounds. It was something so unique and there you are against the world number one Sonja Richards who I don't know if at that point you're realising we are going to be going back and forth over the next few years here. She is very much the favourite possibly even though you’re crazily the world's champion from just the year before. In fact what was the strategy going into that Olympics?
Christine: Okay so I'd been to Athens in 2004 I narrowly missed out the final I came I think fourth in my semi but I finished top ten in the world so that was a very good championships from my perspective. I was only what 20 at the time so it was a really good opener into my sport, into the world of my sport to really understand what it was like to be at the Olympics. So I think in Beijing because of the world champs I had to almost… It wasn't something that was said to myself but I knew deep down that I had to continue up this upward ascent that was the only way for me. I'm not that kind of person who just does something and is quite happy to you know just take part for the rest of time. For me there was the next stage I had to be brave enough to put myself forward onto the next stage so approaching Beijing I was expecting to medal. My prep for Beijing was pretty much identical to 2007. 2007 was a very unusual year and I only had like one race going into the championship just the one and I ran 50.6 as an opener in maybe… like three weeks out from the champs. So we kept the training quite safe because we thought there's no point… Some people do really really well and then they go and they flip everything upside down and make loads of changes but we were quite cautious and we thought okay we know we've got a good thing by doing what we did minimally so we have to just make sure that we just sharpen our edges and make sure that we get to Beijing in the best shape of health, mentally fit and alert so that is kind of how we prepared leading into Beijing and that was it. It was nothing more, Lloyd didn't want to create any kind of over excitement. I remember I got to Beijing, I found out what was important, I found out where the dinner halls were, where I could get my clothes washed and that’s it I didn’t want to take part in anything else. Thankfully we missed opening ceremony which was good because I think that would have just blown my head a bit too much but that was it. I just wanted to keep it very very simple, keep myself as contained as possible because you know we're going into war. Sonia Richards although she wasn't a world champion because I was there she wasn’t. There was always this thing well you know if she was there she would have won it.
Radzi: Right.
Christine: I was a bit indignant you know because you can't just assume that somebody because they're stronger on paper they're going to just walk in and take medals. It doesn't work like that you know I'm not a pushover I don’t operate like that, I don’t. I work too hard for that so you know it was really just about trying to keep us as level-headed as possible and as calm as possible. Just so that I could keep my focus and that was it really. I know it sounds very simplistic given it was the Olympic games but I think how I tend to operate I like to operate in a distraction free zone. I don't like distraction I don't like a load of noise because maybe I've grown up in a noisy household. Remember I'm one of eight kids and I’m the second oldest so I'm used to babies screaming, chaos, fighting, falling down the stairs, breaking something, I’m used to all that but I know that I work very well in very much a distraction-free zone so I worked very hard to make sure that I got rid of all distractions and even this noise surrounding Sonia. I had to get rid of that, I had to just cut it out and just you know focus. So it's weird because it was such a big deal, it was my first Olympics that I could realistically strike for a medal and it was weird because it was the biggest Olympics we've ever seen but for me those were not things I allowed to come into my sphere of consciousness. It just wasn't something I thought was going to be of benefit to me so I mean to be honest even now when I look back I don't know how I did it.
Radzi: Yeah.
Christine: I don't know, yeah. I remember I didn’t sleep a wink the night before I was exhausted I didn't sleep because I was just so scared and I got to the track and do you know that weird thing where like no one knows what to say to you. Everyone just parts ways when you’re coming because no one quite knows what to tell you just before you go into a final. My friends wanted to comfort me but didn't know what to say. This is like probably the first Olympic finalists I've seen you know. We didn't really have any Olympic finalists in Beijing.
Radzi: Hashida was…
Christine: Oh Hashida yes but I mean in the sense that we were not used to seeing people make finals in Athens I don’t remember anybody making a final. So well I think Abbie… What I'm trying to say is that it wasn't really something that people knew how to deal with so yeah I just remember people not quite knowing what to say to me. Should they say just go out and enjoy yourself or you know and it was really weird because I didn't really know what to tell myself either and my coach was nervous. One of my friends Annika Nora came down with me on the final night just to kind of give me company because I don't know I just couldn’t sleep and I was nervous as anything but I think when it got to the point where you had go into the core room that was when I had to say goodbye to coach and I think it’s then when you realise you're on your own that's when like the demon comes out and you think well this is it now I either crash and burn or I survive and I think I adopted the survival mode.
Radzi: In fact let's remind ourselves of that race because it's such a special moment this. So Sonya Richards you mentioned world number one and Sharika Williams of Jamaica and then Christine is going to be the person who comes through very very strongly. So again Christine you're in fourth at this point and Sonya is… I mean look at that! She is out, she’s taken the Clyde heart method of run out hard.
Christine: Run out hard and hang.
Radzi: But unfortunately she's about to get hung out too dry, and how are you feeling at this point here in terms of your legs?
Christine: Well I know this is going to sound very odd but I got to the core room and I just knew that I’m gonna have to win this. I have to win this. I could sense some vulnerability in Sonya I'm not sure what it was but I think it's almost just a feeling you get when you kind of feel that someone's on edge and I just thought well this is it. This is something I'm going to have to really try and take and I think it’s at that point you decide whether or not you're going to step up to the challenge or not and I was quite confident in stepping up. I mean when I say confident I’m not somebody that goes out and says that they're completely confident all the time because I’m not and it would be a lie to say that but I think I was almost in that place where I thought you know I’ve got a great opportunity here and I have to give myself the best opportunity to try and so I think like I did in 2007 it was pretty much just gonna run the same script I knew Sonya was gonna go out hard but I know that we both have different styles and ways of running so as I always do it's really just about running to my river and then Lloyd would always say that Chris you know your last 50s is you’re strongest. So it's almost like I'm just waiting for that to kick in and then see what can be done so the last 100 really is just about who's prepared to fight the hardest, that's really what it boils down to.
Radzi: It’s so strong… You just don’t tighten and then William…
Christine: No.
Radzi: Does well at the end.
Christine: Yeah Sharika, I love Sharika. We’ve been friends for a very very very long time. I really do love Sharika really love her.
Radzi: Do you recall what went through your head when you crossed the finish line?
Christine: Oh gosh I don’t know. You know the first thing I think of when I cross the line is just relief.
Radzi: Oh yeah I bet, I bet.
Christine: And then you can probably start assessing whether it's good or bad or whether you just want to run away and hide and bury yourself somewhere but I don't know, I don't remember. You have to remember you're so tired at that point and it's just a flood of emotions it’s really quite hard but I think the first thing is it's just that you're relieved and it hurts very much.
Radzi: You’ve mentioned Lloyd’s name a lot in this half hour and I imagine this is going to be a really difficult conversation to have. You lost him…
Christine: Yeah.
Radzi: This year.
Christine: Yeah.
Radzi: Anyone who doesn’t know perhaps as much as you do about him what should we know because in the athletics world especially in this country he's a real legend and he's loved.
Christine: Yeah Lloyd was very good at what he did and I think I know Lloyd was very much a renegade in the sport. He didn't quite do things exactly how they were supposed to done and be done in terms of coaching like I could tell that Lloyd was a very very different coach but for me that was what worked best for how I needed to train but he was someone who I completely always trusted regardless of what was happening even through everything I went through he was always someone that was a consistent force of positivity. Yeah, it's weird I mean apart from what people know of him which is a lot um because he was always out there he was always out there giving himself to people so people always able to see what they were dealing with. He was not really someone with an ego and I think that is really hard to find nowadays. It is hard to find people that just coach because they love the sport. There were times where we would go to go away to training like warm weather and he would be quite happily, you know he'll be quite happy to have other groups join us, and other coaches join us and train with my athlete. He will happily just send me out to train with all these different people because he did not mind. He wanted he wanted. People to learn and he wanted me to let he would say you know he never was precious about his athletes, or you can't train with this person you can't do this, you can't do that. You'd say well if they can teach you better than I can you know I'm not good at this bit, if they're good at this bit you go you go and tell me what you guys get on with and then you let me know, and then I can incorporate that into your training, or we let people come and train with him. And it was very much uh open forum in terms of learning and you don't really see that anymore everybody's quite closed off, and this is what I do, and this is how I do it, and this is the best way to get things done and that's kind of why I really enjoyed him, because it really does open up the doors for learning, and he didn't have an ego. If he could not do something say Chris, I can't do it I don't know and those are the best words to me because at least I had clarity as to where I stood and what I needed to do next and that's kind of what I think I miss that spirit of just togetherness and people sharing ideas um and you know Lloyd I mean as I think I said in my tribute that Lloyd was coaching everyone and there were times you know we were like he'll bring some kid from somewhere and we're like going around with Chris and I said where is this person but I didn't mind after all I didn't mind I mean I always was switching training partners all the time like I never really had one set training partner because lord brings someone though maybe they'll last for maybe a month or two months and then they'll go find someone else, but I didn't mind because I knew where he was coming from and it's very unusual to find an elite coach who operates like that but I didn't suffer for it I there's nothing he did that that put me under any kind of disadvantage everything that he did was to help me out and to make me better and I’m really glad that I was able to see that because I know that it can work and it doesn't it doesn't hurt to help athletes it really doesn't hurt it really doesn't hurt to you know a lot of athletes don’t have much money so they can't pay for things but Lloyd never charged he never charged never charged me a penny ever he gave me my first pair of um competition spikes well um well my first pair was giving him give him to my tin mom door but when I got a bit older I wasn't able to afford to buy spikes and everything and you know he got me my shoes he got me kept he would just do that because he just believed that people should have an opportunity to try you know everybody makes it a lot a lot of people do make it so um that's kind of what I miss and I really hope people do appreciate that and but not just acknowledge and appreciate it but really try and take that into what they're doing and extending that to other athletes and other people that might need help because sport is tough it's tough but you know we can all kind of help each other just oil the cogs a little bit just to help make our lives a little bit easier.
Radzi: He gave a lovely tribute to you I listened to an interview that you did on a podcast and yeah said to him uh if Christine was listening to this now is there anything you'd like to say to her do you do you remember any of that message.
Christine: Oh no I can't I can't listen to them yeah sorry not so yeah no
Radzi: It was really apparent that he was more than a coach to you it was really apparent that he was part father yeah I’ve learned
Christine: I’ve known he's given some but I’ve not been able to listen to any of him just yet so but I think he's always knew what I always knew I mean he told me most of the time anyway so I kind of know what he said but I will take some time to listen but I haven't been able to listen to it just yet yeah
Radzi: I thought it was really wonderful because sometimes you never quite know what somebody thinks of you but to have it actually in black and white yeah must be and was he there for you during the time uh the muscle what I knew no was really difficult for you and your family yeah um during his test period.
Christine: yeah lord was heart was there and I think was one of the things I found exceptionally difficult um I felt bad for my family, but that was more like uh um not saying it's an afterthought um but it was I thought obviously my prayer my family always going to be priority but I think I found it especially hard for Lloyd, because he was my coach and I almost felt like maybe he felt some responsibility and I wanted to tell him that you know it wasn't your fault, but unfortunately when an athlete goes down everyone goes down around them. You drag everyone down with you, so I didn't feel sorry for love because I remember at times, he just did not know what to do and he felt like he was responsible. He never actually told me this, but I am just judging by um how I saw his demeanour. You know um but at the same time he never stopped whipping the whip he never see he really did crack the whip like he really did, he really pushed me hard he really did I mean there were times where I come to training and I’ll be upset and like right Chris you know I’m going to get to work today stop crying fix your face he'll tell me to go and go and do my work but there were times if I was finding exceptionally difficult he might say okay we'll just you know go back home you're no good to anybody right now so he'll send me back um but yeah, I was exceptionally difficult and I did really feel for him because I thought this was, this wasn't his fault, but I do like I almost felt like he carried some responsibility because maybe he was supposed to keep an eye on me or make sure that I was where I was supposed to be I think also because he wasn't a page coach at the time, which meant that he didn't have any kind of , he didn't have like any one resting place to coach we would coach out here or coach out of there or go to he were quite transient as athletes because we were just following the orders of coach. The coach said we are going to surrey keys close to my land then we pick our bags, and we go. I mean there's no kind of oh let's check whereabouts or whatever so I think maybe possibly he felt a bit responsible because we were just so up and down there was no one place maybe we could have taken it more seriously we were training so we wouldn't have these problems because I’d set my whereabouts to my coaching locations that's kind of why I mentioned this um so I don't know we never really I can't really remember him saying any real crossword I think he was just desperately sad for me and um he wanted I think I think he had seen my career start when I was 20 from Athens and he's probably thinking that it's just it's kind of going to you know come to a very uh sad end. I think he just felt really sad, but I think but for the most part I don't really think when I think of lord. I don't really think um that I don't really remember him kind of suffering, I just remember that he kind of just kept me propped up which was good you know.
Radzi: He really did the time you're talking about so for anyone who doesn't necessarily know is I think it's 2006, you find out that you've missed three tests it was a new system a pilot system where they do whereabouts tests so you have lots of tests throughout the year and unbeknownst to you you've missed three of them, which means automatic suspension from the sport at that point there. It's happened to Christian Coleman very recently it has happened to a number of athletes but when that happens do you even know how many tests you're on at that point, do they call you do they email you, how do you find that news out?
Christine: How did I find out, I think for the third one I was at ,I think, I was competing, and they came and told me I think I was supposed to be competing at crystal palace and they came to tell me that I’d miss the third one and obviously I was like no I didn't know I didn't know I said yeah you what you did and then and I think they kind of uh they will tell us that they kind of think had a letter of where I should have been, and you know they'll have it they have it all evidenced out but I didn't I didn't think I had at that time until they told me and then I thought oh dear but then at some time you think okay I’ll just explain where I was I explained you know I was supposed to be training here, but this happened and so we went here instead and you think that's enough but then they say I think at the moment that nobody really wants to worry you so it's like oh just you know just go away we'll be in contact by phone and we'll you know we'll take it from there so I don't really think anything of it and also I’d run rubbish on that date anyway. I remember I’d come last, so I really wasn't in the best mood. I really was not in the best mood, but I just thought I’ll do it when I get home, I’ve got more important things to worry about right now.
Radzi: you think that's why is that something that hung over your head throughout your career because when I think of, so I’ve loved athletics since yeah 92 probably and okay so I love athletics and when I think of you I think of somebody who raises her game at the highest possible level. I think you are the only British athlete bar maybe Ennis at the time before she was in this hill and Farah who crossing the line in 2012 getting a silver medal looked devastated that says everything about where because that said to me my level is that that is an under achievement which means gold is just the expected it's not. I did it it's no that's just you saw when you crossed the line in Beijing you're an Olympic champion you don't look shocked and look surprised it's job done 2017 job done so I think myself how on earth are you not more celebrated and so I just wondered if that was kind of something that you've carried with you and maybe that's part of the reason behind, it because there's no other explanation.
Christine: yeah, I think this I think is quite a complex issue I don't think it's any ever down to one thing um do you mean if it hung over me personally or it hung over me with regards to how other people saw me, I think they're different
Radzi: Second one sorry is inception.
Christine: Yeah, I think I you know what it's such a difficult question to know how to answer because nobody ever came out and told me that, so you know. I wouldn't know I can't speak for something I don't category categorically know the answer to, but I have wondered that I mean coming after 2008 we came into the recession so if you remember the recession uh we were in the middle of the recession and I remember like opportunities were kind of few and far between because sponsors never wanted to pay up or you know there weren't really that many opportunities I was always kind of being told no all the time for a lot of things and I don't really know I mean it did worry me a little bit but I think when I won in 2007 I thought okay that will tell people that you know I am someone who's a serious athlete but even though all this did happen uh you have the report that said it wasn't a serious infraction. It wasn't done deliberately, you had people supporting me even my federation were quite happy to take me back to compete so you had all these things that weighed in my favour but and I kind of thought it was done and dusted but then you realise that it kind of just hangs around like a bad smell so I don't know because no one actually told me but I do get the feeling that I did actually feel like quite of an outcast actually while I was competing I never really said anything because it didn't really make any difference here nor there but I don't really. I mean and um I don't know I just never really felt like I’d fit anywhere to be honest, this was I mean social media wasn't really a big thing then at all, but even dealing with social media just really wasn't my thing. I didn't really felt like I found anything that really would speak to me um maybe it's because of what I went through I think because of the missed test. I did become very closed off because I think one of the biggest and best lessons I learned from that experience was that you cannot rely on outside celebration to get you through your day, you can't you can't rely on that that's not the one thing that you should use to keep you going because when things happen and don't quite go as well as you would hope them to go you've only got yourself to pick yourself up you know you cannot rely on public adulation as such to kind of keep. You keep you running and because you realise that people are fickle they're thick or you know they're saying you know today's story and tomorrow your chip paper so I think that's one of the best lessons I think from that point on I realised that actually I don't that's not going to be something I need and if it's not if I’m not going to be accepted in a way that I should be then it's not i don't really care either way so I kind of became very hardened um I don't know if that's a good thing or not but it's almost that's what I found um I needed to do to get to get through my career because ultimately regardless of whatever happened around me I was enjoying what I was doing I was enjoying being an athlete. I was in, you know somewhat enjoying doing 400 and I and I loved it and I really wanted to enjoy doing it regardless of whatever was going on outside, I wanted to continue winning and doing my sport I come from a very big family so and I’m not second oldest so I almost had a duty to them to make to show them that when things do go wrong you can turn it around right and you should turn it around you know you should this is your name this is your this is your job this is your skill you have to work at it as far as you can to make it good for yourself so I think really that was my priority, but I never really, I’m not really sure if it did hang over me in a sense that you're saying because no one ever really expressed that to me but um I did feel like it was a bit like I didn't really feel like I was fully accepted or you know held close like. I see a lot of athletes being held close today, do you get what I mean? I did try and turn it around and um you know I mean I was I won two championships year after year not many people do that in Britain that must be clear, and I ran faster than any Britain had done in in what 30 years, so I did think that was a bit strange but at the time I really didn't want to um concern myself too much for that.
Radzi: When you're talking about your family name how do we actually pronounce your family name. Myself my dad would have said young it's butchered left right and centre. I have heard how you said your surname, so we get it properly.
Christine: It is Ohuruogu, I mean you can pronounce it with I’m just currently learning the language like proper, so you would pronounce it slightly differently but I’m not that I’m not at that level to do that a lot of Nigerians get it wrong. A lot of Nigerians probably cannot always realise it's a Nigerian name which is strange.
Radzi: it is not the ola it is not the classic kind of.
Christine: it's not it's not a short name.
Radzi: And finally if I was to speak to my friend Jason and I said describe Christine Ohuruogu on the track how would you do it he'd say one word, gangster, because you turned up you executed the competition you were patient you had them in your sights and then you waited you waited and whether it's Sonia Richard’s ross as she was wherever it became you waited for that moment bam you went past them sometimes it worked, the majority of the time occasionally it didn't and when it didn't it was fractions of a meter which is also a part of athletics, but he'd say how would you like to be remembered from your athletics career
Christine: oh that's the one question to let me sit back you know I think I would like to see as um I say this because of my coach but it was like poetry lord always say when you run it's like poetry you know there's you might not always understand it you might not always get it but it works you know it works and it's fluid and it's rhythmic and that's often how I feel when I when I run a good race I’m flowing you know you're such a weird sensationalist and it's the best feeling ever and I suppose once I’ve retired I’m so desperate to get that kind of feeling back where you're just on top of yourself and you're having to do very minimal work my best race is I run I can cross the line and I’m not even tired you know it's just minimal effort and that's where I love working, so I think poetry in a sense is just you know a good poet which we know just glides and takes you somewhere and loves just leaves you in awe losing all when it's finished.
Radzi: Well Christine, should we end with some poetry? We will end with the poetry of you winning in 2013, which I think off the top of my head is the British record.
Christine: Yeah, that is a British record.
Radzi: Yes, here comes the British record and mantle honcho is the athlete to look out for she's the danger area can Christine do it disappointment in London 2012 so that there's a man to Manchester in the centre of frame on to us the left of Christine on her outside and once again you're winding it up you're reeling her in monster is a lethal athlete it's going to be close this is going to be so close look I mean I mean seriously that was that was I mean surely even Lloyd at that point was good I don't know.
Christine: I think Lloyd was going to really like wet himself.
Radzi: To be clear even there the camera people and everyone in the gallery they're staying on a man to Manchester, because nobody knows yet who's got it,
Christine: I mean no one knew, I think I knew she asked me was it you and I said oh I don't know, but I think I said no I think it was it goes oh, I think it was you and I said Well let's wait and see.
Radzi: I love that you're even able to do that clearly, you're being British polite even then and then she wants to find out world champion two times and it really is poetry it really is poetry Christine. This has been genuinely an absolute pleasure thank you so much for your time. This has been great I love going down memory lane, it's always a good day again of course.
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